Curse

Absolute Destiny · Mar 29, 2011, 10:48 PM // 22:48

I've been trying to play around with my warrior lately, after playing a general swordsmanship build for about a year, and it seems like every build on PvX includes "Save Yourselves!"

I tried running it in a W/A Enduring Dagger build while VQing Rhea's Crater, and it didn't seem to improve my survivability.

Of course, I'm using it while running 7 Heroes including Discordway, so it may just be that Discordway is eclipsing the need for the armor boost.

Am I missing some hugely obvious use for the skill, or do I just not need it on my current build?

Sir Baddock · Mar 29, 2011, 11:08 PM // 23:08

You don't gain anything from Save Yourselves!, it is purely for Allies around you. I believe there's also a few slightly unknown interactions with this skill that people are unaware of I may be entirely incorrect but NPC's seem to decide who to attack based on Armor value, gaining +100 Armor pushed many classes to equal armor values resulting in 60Armor allies generally being hit less due to your own armor not being increased by the skill you are left at default values meaning you tend to take the bulk of the damage.

This is all in addition to the reduced damage allies take while this skill is active on them, running something like a Dragon SY Spammer or Imbagon results in a large amount of earshot-range damage reduction.

Horace Slughorn · Mar 29, 2011, 11:32 PM // 23:32

bar compression. one copy of save yourself can replace a load of slots taken up by healing/prot. these can then be used for utility or damage

Kunder · Mar 29, 2011, 11:40 PM // 23:40

If you can't see why giving your entire party +100 armor is a good thing then I'm afraid it is far beyond me to try and explain it to you.

AlsPals · Mar 29, 2011, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Guess he never saw the part about it affecting his part and not he himself.

Uriel_Wolfblood · Mar 30, 2011, 12:21 AM // 00:21

It doesn't affect YOUR survivability, it helps your party. +100 AL to your party members is about 80% damage reduction. And as Horace pointed out this greatly reduces the need to have extra healing/prots on your other members. It is just too good to leave out of a warrior bar in my honest opinion, unless you have an imbagon or something.

Absolute Destiny · Mar 30, 2011, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Thanks for the info.

To specify, by "my" I meant "my party's" survivability.

I used it again a little bit ago while VQing Shenzun Tunnels, and it kept my spellcasters alive while I tried to hack through assassins who were using Flashing Blades.

Just sucks that it's adrenaline based, but I guess being able to use it whenever instead of after attacking would be overpowered.

Lord Mip · Mar 30, 2011, 12:52 AM // 00:52

That is actually possible. A lot of builds focus on getting a lot of adrenaline just to keep this skill up almost indefinitely. The Dragon Slash spammer is a Warrior example, while the Imbagon is an example for Paragons.

Sir Baddock · Mar 30, 2011, 12:53 AM // 00:53

You can easily maintain 100% Upkeep of it with a Warrior though while doing loads of damage.

IronSheik · Mar 30, 2011, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Take less than a quarter damage, or throw another DAGGER skill on my WARRIOR bar.

Derp

blue.rellik · Mar 30, 2011, 02:10 AM // 02:10

It is an amazing skill, there have been plenty of times where my team was under heaps of pressure (like accidentally aggroing 2-3 mobs in HM) and as long as SY was up, no one was dying

That said it shouldn't be your only form of protection, since it is armour it doesn't stop armour ignoring damage. So areas with lots of sins, mesmers and necroes can still hurt

mage767 · Mar 30, 2011, 05:44 AM // 05:44

The only exception to the SY armor is armor ignoring damage, mesmers and necros in particular.

kedde · Mar 30, 2011, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

Thanks for the info.

To specify, by "my" I meant "my party's" survivability.

I used it again a little bit ago while VQing Shenzun Tunnels, and it kept my spellcasters alive while I tried to hack through assassins who were using Flashing Blades.

Just sucks that it's adrenaline based, but I guess being able to use it whenever instead of after attacking would be overpowered.

It already is overpowered, but yes.

shinta_himura · Mar 30, 2011, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Can someone explain why this skill wasn't hit by the recent slaughter-fest of PvE skills? "BUH!" and AScan got slaughtered but not this??

Anyway this skill really shines if you have 2 human players on your team that generate adrenaline. Then it's incredibly easy to keep it up at all times. I previously even used it on an assassin primary, their attack speed and double-attacks provided excellent adrenaline.

Reverend Dr · Mar 31, 2011, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Every 40 armor halves damage taken. +100 armor roughly reduces damage by 82%

Sir Baddock · Mar 31, 2011, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinta_himura

Can someone explain why this skill wasn't hit by the recent slaughter-fest of PvE skills? "BUH!" and AScan got slaughtered but not this??

Anyway this skill really shines if you have 2 human players on your team that generate adrenaline. Then it's incredibly easy to keep it up at all times. I previously even used it on an assassin primary, their attack speed and double-attacks provided excellent adrenaline.

To my understanding BuH and Asuran Scan were hit with the nerf bat because a majority of builds required them. An example, I couldn't get into a VSF as an RoJ pre-BuH Nerf because the damage bonus it provided was just too big to not take. In addition they increased damage by a flat amount which is something that (If I could find the article) ArenaNet doesn't like.

Jeydra · Mar 31, 2011, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote by what is probably the best 7H Warrior (and arguably the best 7H player) in the game:

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFGJack

What is this SY you're talking about? does it add to DP-- oh yeah THAT skill. I don't use it since my heroes never take any damage anyway.

I'll go out on a limb and say that you usually don't need Save Yourselves. If you ever find yourself against a brick wall that you can't beat, consider using it. Otherwise, screw it and use something more offensive.

ZephyLynx · Mar 31, 2011, 02:29 PM // 14:29

SY! is really only needed for pugging (unorganized play) where no one knows positioning and team builds are sub-par with little to no synergy. Pugs with zero prot, zero interrupts, zero shutdown, etc... In an organized and/or well built team, you can embed damage mitigation into offensive and utility skills. There is no need for SY! (in most cases).

Teams with large amounts of spirits, minions, and interrupts mitigate damage enough that the team does not really take high amounts of damage. I'm not saying that SY! is a bad skill or useless. It's just that a well made team benefits much less. It's similar to UA. The worse the team, the better the skill.

When I 7H, I bring 2 spirit spammers, minions, Psychic Instability, interrupts, prot, etc. In the vast majority of the time, there is no need for SY!.

Edit:
As for yourself, I am Unstoppable! is really the only thing you need in that department, if your team has damage mitigation (prot). As a warrior, bring stuff to kill faster (and buffs from casters if possible, ie. SW, ARage, Orders, SoH, etc...).

Beomagi · Mar 31, 2011, 03:04 PM // 15:04

With the 7H update, it's become much much easier to handle ensuring all aspects of a balanced party are taken care of. Generally I don't run with this (also a W/A) but instead carry YMLAD and Brawling headbutt. If there's a big boss I can KD, I concentrate on keeping them down. If I can't KD the boss, I have a hench prot me, pin henches, run in, and unpin.

Xenomortis · Mar 31, 2011, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinta_himura

Can someone explain why this skill wasn't hit by the recent slaughter-fest of PvE skills? "BUH!" and AScan got slaughtered but not this??

The reason lies in their functionality. You might notice that before that update, there were five skills (three of which were PvE only) that had a multiplicative effect on damage.
Aura of Holy Might, Asuran Scan, By Ural's Hammer, Vow of Strength and Vengeance.
Strictly speaking, the way AoHM worked differed to the rest, but it can be loosely connected. These skills were broken because of this effect and all but AoHM actually stacked with other damage buffs (for example, if SoH makes your attack deal +20 damage, BuH also acted on that +20 to make it +25).

Notice that the update changed all but one of these skills; Vengeance was untouched and By Ural's Hammer now has a similar functionality.

On Save Yourselves:
It adds to your stability, nothing more. If you think your team is stable without this skill, there's no reason to bring it. Of course it means you can get away with a lot, but it's not necessary.
That said, I would try to get it on any physical bar if I was running with heroes (I might not bother with a ranger, but I would on melee professions).